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Transcript 

 

0:00
Bill, welcome to the LeaderGov podcast, America's premier source for local government leadership and teamwork training. And now your host, Bill Stark, we are

0:10
really excited today to have a special guest. Jon Amundson is with us. Jon is the City Manager in Richland, Washington, and he's been city manager Since 2021 before that, he was the assistant city manager from roughly 2008 to 2021 he was assistant to the city manager of Allen, Texas in the early 2000s in Lenexa, Kansas, in that early to 2000s period. It's really nice to have you with us, Jon, I wanted to just have you maybe pause here a minute, if you don't mind just saying hello and maybe something unique about Richland. You know, give us a couple of minutes what's Richland all about, and tell us a little bit more about yourself.

0:54
Sure. Thank you for having me be a part of this discussion. I look forward to learning from everyone as much as I might be able to impart a word or two here Richland. So what is it known for? Some of you might be familiar with Los Alamos, New Mexico or Oak Ridge, Tennessee, as being part of the history of World War Two. Well, the third leg of that is Richland, Washington when it comes to nuclear production prior to the Cold War, and so we have a very large federal government presence on cleanup of historic nuclear sites. We had one of the first reactors in the country, the B Reactor. We refer to it as and it's actually part of a three, three site national park that you can come and visit us. It's the only multi site national park that I'm aware of. And you can get a real unique stamp, because as you go around to the different national parks, you can get a stamp, but if you come to Richland, you only get a third of that stamp. And we also have one of the National Laboratories, Pacific National Northwest laboratory is here in Richland. And we're also right on the edge of a lot of agricultural production, lots of baby carrots processed, lots of corn and other pro other agricultural products, including hay. So we're about a city of 62,000

2:28
nice, yeah, mid, mid sized city, we would say, yeah. Well, again, we're glad you're here. We want to from our survey results if we discovered that really there, there isn't a lot of very specific focus in this area of multi generational collaboration and ways of engaging and leveraging generations, it's kind of a new topic to a lot of us, so we're not maybe going to boil the ocean today and solve all these problems, but at least we want to talk about the issue and maybe throw out some ideas and stories of how we can actually better leverage our strengths and maybe overcome some of our quirks. Now this topic that we're talking about today, for everybody on the zoom here and the podcast, leader gov has a program called teamwork Summit, so our January teamwork summit course is multi generational workplace success. So we know that in in today's workplace, we have baby boomers. That's up until about 1963 baby boomers. We've got Gen X, which are right behind the baby boomers. We've got Gen Y, or commonly called millennials, and Gen Z. Gen Z is roughly 24 years old and below 2224 years old and below. And so we got four generations under one roof. It can get kind of crowded. As I said earlier. Local government tends to have more baby boomers, percentage wise, than private industry. And so we really just wanted to open up the floor via messaging. So Lindsay, if you could watch the messaging, any questions folks may have that we may want to discuss, but I did have some questions, Jon, I wanted to ask you about again, just to get some thoughts flowing here with everybody. I'd love any story that you have to share. Jon, I know you mentioned to me that early on in your career, you one of the things that baby boomers, many are good at is coaching and developing people and investing in people, but training coaching. And would you mind sharing, sort of your experience, or maybe earlier in your career, when you were a little younger, and how maybe another generation poured into you? Yeah,

4:35
no. I think it's a great question, as I look back both at my time in Lenexa, Kansas as an intern, and then really my first real job, if you will, in Allen, Texas, I was, I've always been in the city manager's office since I graduated from school, and so my peers were typically 20 plus years older than me in some instances. Is, but it really gave me appreciation for the wealth of knowledge that they had, both, not only through the career experiences that they had, as well as the stability that they had within the organization. And so I could turn to them and just really get a deep understanding of why maybe some of the things developed the way they did, maybe for a physical development of the community, or why certain policies or procedures were in place. And you might come to certain assumptions if you're coming in new to the organization, and then you you get to have a one on one conversation with someone that has that knowledge and experience, and it just really opens up your mind as to where those things came from. Yeah, yeah.

5:50
And so how did that help you when these older I guess they were baby boomers, perhaps. What was it like? How did they invest in you? What was that like for you, and how did it help you advance in your career? And wow.

6:03
Well, one thing that I really appreciate is that I found the Boomers to be very welcoming as a younger intern and being a part of the executive team from the get go. And it also prepared me too, because as I transitioned to an assistant city manager, and then city manager, I had more experience and comfort level with elected officials that still primarily identify as being in the baby boomer generation, and so it's a group that I'm comfortable conversing with and sharing ideas and working With and understanding some of their particular preferences for communication and that sort of thing. Yeah,

6:45
yeah. And in the chat, by the way, if you all want to chat anything for any of the generations, like, how do you what do you see as some of their strengths, and what do you see as some of their we say quirks, right? Things we need to work on. I'll give you a quirk of the baby boomers. I'm a baby boomer. We pride ourselves in working really super hard, come in early, stay late, that kind of a mindset, and we expect everybody else to work the way we work. Everybody should come in early, everybody should stay late. That might be a good idea, but it's really doesn't work for everybody. So that was what we would call it generational work. So we'd love to have any comments you all have or thoughts about any of the generations, and we can just talk about them with Jon and among each other. Dominique says millennials and Gen Z's provide a lot of perspective on efficiencies and time management. Yeah, I think that's a great comment. Again, it's experience. So the question is, in our local governments, are we allowing those baby boomers or baby Gen X to share their experience, right, to share their knowledge and know how Jon, I wanted to ask you, what are you seeing in the workplace, there in Richland, around this idea of generational, the generations that might need focus, or what kind of What are you seeing in the in your workplace? Is there a clash of generations there? Some

8:04
of the things that immediately came to mind was succession planning. I think it was already mentioned that we have baby boomers, more baby boomers than, say, the private sector, as well as even some on the upper end of Gen X and starting to retire, and so we're needing to replace those individuals. And there is different expectations and different values for the younger generations, if you will, than those that have been in the position currently. And so keeping that in mind, both in recruitment and retention, as well as organizational structure. We found in a couple recent recruitments that the new individual has a very different perspective on how to structure the department and some of the I guess, challenges that come with restructuring and looking at it from a different approach, where I the easy button is just to keep it as is, but oftentimes it leads to greater growth when you go through that exercise. One of the others was just the different generational differences in hybrid and remote work, those that are more comfortable versus not techno technological advancement, I used to pride myself on being the the young intern that could help everyone whip out their iPad and know how to get around stuff, and now I find myself less and less technology of an expert and turning to the next generations to Help me out there, though, I have a couple other items, but just wanted to see check in with you, Bill, if we want to open it up or continue to discuss those.

9:49
Yeah, we got it. We do have a couple of good comments here. Sarah in Aurora said, I've experienced that boomers do not like change. They have chosen to leave the organization because they were unable to. Make the changes requested. I think that is a good topic for us to talk about. And we would call that a generational quirk that's so perhaps not everybody right, but rigid and not wanting to change. And that is a generational thing. Sarah, and I don't know Jon, if you've maybe experienced that in past roles, or maybe seen that in Richland.

10:21
I think it's a very valid point, and something that we experience here as well. And oftentimes we've seen maybe that impetus to retire or decision made, maybe because of some change within the organization and they either self select or maybe there's some challenges, because the performance isn't quite the same or expectation, and we need it to be, when it comes to the work output and that sort of thing.

10:55
Yeah, we had Dominique. Had a good comment, Prince William County Gen Xers get things done. We're the Masters in navigating both ends of the generational divide. We respect systems while we have a willingness to try new ways and strategic approaches. And so I think about that, Dominique, even if there's a new project that needs to get started, in your agency, you've got the experience and all the history of the boomers. You've got the Gen X's that leverage that, then you've got maybe the millennials that can bring in technology. Gen Xers are really good communicators. They're bold thinkers, Gen X and so I love this idea of having multiple generations on a project and really deliberately trying to leverage their strengths, their generational strengths. I don't know, Jon or would that? Does that? Have you all seen any of that? Or is that something you think worth exploring a little bit more? Maybe in local government. One

11:51
thing that we've done over the last couple of years is we've instituted what we call an impact Academy, and originally we thought it would be more of those individuals that their next step would be a management position. But we changed our approach the second year that we're in our second year, and when we had applicants apply, we took more of a generational approach. And so we have individuals beginning of career, mid career, and even some in their peak earning years. But felt like that mix really enhanced the impact Academy for leadership development on when, also when it comes to the multi generational team, is it's not always about looking up, but also looking down to see what you can learn, as far as age wise is concerned, something that I've learned from the younger generations is mental health and being needs to take more of a center, center spotlight, and then the way in which we train individuals, it seems Like in government, we can be a little bit antiquated, whereas the younger generation, maybe it's a little bit more of a self paced style, a lot more this type of thing that's remote, whereas some of the older generations, including myself, is more traditional, sit in the room, lecture style. So that's something I've definitely learned from a Gen Z millennials.

13:28
Yeah, great. I really like that perspective. And what we want to try to do is think about how we can leverage and get along and learn from I noticed Ronnie had a comment here in Ohio, one of my departments has five individuals, 26 year old, 3544 53 and 65 year old. And so most of you on this zoom today are leaders. This is leader gov, and the question that comes to mind for me is, how do we, as leaders, like what is our responsibility to help other generations learn about other generations? What's what's our role? And how can we create an environment where we do talk about this, and I don't like multitasking, I think it's ridiculous. Not everybody agrees with that. Can we have a conversation about that? Now, there are some things we can't go over the line that we can't be on our texting during an important meeting, right? So there's some things that are hard and fast, but I just wonder, what is our role as a leader? And it's a challenging question to everybody on the Zoom today, what's our role in bringing together a cohesiveness, a point, right? Nobody likes anything. Got some Lindsay, if you can help me find those folks unmuted, that'd be great. Thank you. But what is our role? And I wonder, Jon, if, like I said in our course, that we have that's. Me out this month, we have some exercises for teams to go through where they actually talk about generational strengths and generational quirks, and we actually talk about it like in an open setting, right? And we get it out on the table, because some of these things that the millennials do bug me, right? So we got to talk about it, so we're not at odds with each other. Does that make sense?

15:24
Yeah, for sure. And I think half the battle is maybe acknowledging or being willing to have the conversations of maybe some of the expected norms within the workplace. I don't know. I might be advancing this a little bit more than you anticipated, but like on expectations of norms, I just wrote down like dress, because I think there's even different expectations. I know that the baby boomers were much more buttoned up suit and tie, and when I first entered the workplace, that was more of the expectation. And now the only time you'll catch me in the suit and tie is on council meeting day. Technology use during meetings, you reference texting some there are some that are in the meeting, and they actually get more, and they gain more from being able to interact with their screen, whether taking notes or that sort of interaction where others might be offended because they don't feel like they're being listened to. And then I think a big one is that collaborative style versus chain of command, and some of the differences that the generations have in you can't just speak to so and so, or that sort of attitude or approach versus being willing to just dialog up and down the chain, if you will. Yeah, 100%

16:46
when we've seen that where, particularly baby boomers, they're very used to structure and hierarchy. Somebody's the boss, right? In modern teams, they're collaborative teams, and it's hard to know who the boss is. And so baby boomers have a little bit of a struggle functioning in a team environment where there's no clear hierarchy. It's more of a team approach to solving problems. And so I wonder I saw a note here from Renee. I think we have to appreciate what each other brings to the table willingness to listen and Gen Z. I believe it's important as a leader to understand the differences and expectations of the generations and work with those differences, so I think that might be a good breakout question for us to when we during today's workshop, we're going to do a little breakout here in just a moment, and we're going to give put you in groups of five or so, and allow you to talk about maybe some ways that you as a leader can create conversations at either a staff meeting or division meeting, where we talk about, what are our expectations, and how does it differ by generation, and what are some of the generational strengths that we have, and what are some of the works that certain generations do that drive us crazy, that we need to talk about? And so again, it's just a challenge to everybody on the call today listening to this podcast. It's what can I do proactively to bring some harmony, bring some understanding to this situation? So let's see who else had a comment here. I wanted to be sure we got Jen. Here we go. Oh. Gen Xers are said to be the Forgotten generation. We might be a little like middle children. That's good, sad. Lol. What do other Gen Xers think? Yeah, I would be curious if you're a Gen X which is right below baby boomers. What are some of the unique characteristics of your generation? What would you say if you want to just chat that in the Zoom chat, it would be good to hear. I'm 63 years old, and so if you're, if you're 61 or 60 years old and below your Gen X, so that's you. So it'd be interesting to hear from a couple of you that are on the Zoom today. If that's you, maybe speak up and share some things about your generation that sort of separate you. The whole idea of work life balance came from the Gen X generation there. That's the generation that actually brought that idea to the forefront. I'm a baby boomers. I said I don't even know what work like balance is. It's work, work, work, work, work, right? We can't be taken off at three o'clock to go to a doctor's appointment. Oh my gosh, that would destroy everything. Let's see. We've got somebody that said, fearless, yeah, Gen Z, yeah, fearless. There is a kind of a boldness about Gen Z, work, hard, play hard, yeah, yeah, that's good. We are similar to Baby Boomers. Talena says, Yeah, I would agree that Gen X is a little similar, and then let's see. Jennifer says, driven. We straddled the technology boom and prior, so we have been expected to learn and grow with it. But it isn't necessarily second nature. Yeah, that's a good. Comment. Kristen has one here. Gen X is the go to group and get it done. Group. Yeah, I like that. They can transition and swap tasks as needed, but want to see the project done and done, right? Yeah, that's good. That's good, Kristen. Thank you. Thank you. We want to give you all. We'll wrap up with Jon here in just a second, but we wanted to give you all a an opportunity in a group setting, in a breakout setting, to just share either some things that you've seen from generations that are concerned for you as a leader, things that are getting in the way of your team's progress, or maybe share some great strengths of the different generations. But I would say, then, what are we doing to put that into action? What are we doing to create a dialog in the workplace? And it's probably at a staff meeting. It's probably 10 minutes, a little 10 minute block during a staff meeting, we all we can't we can only do so much, but I certainly see that in a staff meeting type environment, we could open up some dialog around this topic and try to grow understanding, as Renee said, and share some of our strengths and maybe expectations around around work, texting and dress and some of the things Jon talked about. Jon, would you care to add anything as we go into these groups, any sort of final thought, or maybe something that you think you might want to work on there and in Richland. Based on this,

21:25
I appreciate the challenge of discussing how we could have the discussion in our individual organizations, because I think oftentimes what I've observed is maybe in small group settings or with other peers, we'll reference Oh, that's just, that's a result of being a millennial, or that's a result of being a Gen X, or what that might be, but more recognizing it that those are truly a product of the generations in which we were born and raised, and recognizing that there with each one, there's those strengths and weaknesses, and really draw from the opportunity that's there and minimizing the the pinch points or conflict points, if you will. Yeah,

22:10
yeah, that's really good, Jon. We we do the DISC personality assessment at leader gov, which many of you on the this zoom, this podcast are familiar with, and we actually recommend, if you can do it, like when you're entering into a really big project there at your local agency, and it's a group, it's a team project, try to have a D, I, S and C, try to have one of each personality represented, because the C, the conscientious person on the desk, is going to want to be sure the agreements proper, and I's dotted, T's crossed, the I on the team, the disc, the i's influence a person. They're the one that's going to want to be sure it's a pleasant, positive environment for everybody. So each of these personalities brings something unique to the project. And I think in the same way multiple generations, we can do the same thing if we have people from multiple generations in projects and work teams, we can actually have a better outcome. Does that make sense? Jon, that the kind of idea? Yeah,

23:10
absolutely. I like that approach of drawing from each of those strengths, and sometimes you create more conflict or more risk when you're just a bunch of DS or you're not able to get all the i's dotted and the T's crossed because you're just driven to see the thing done. So it ends up better when you have that diversity. Thank

23:35
you for listening to the LeaderGov podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe and for more information on LeaderGov's workshops and programs for state and local governments, visit www.leadergov.com you.