
Listen and learn from the best in local government
At LeaderGov we want to equip you to lead well. These enlightening podcasts, from top local government and industry leaders, will help you gain valuable insights into a variety of leadership, management and teamwork topics, so you can lead better.
You can also listen to LeaderGov Podcasts via Apple, Google Podcast or Spotify.
Transcript
0:05
It is a pleasure to be with everyone today on our podcast here at LeaderGov. My name is Bill Stark and along with my partner, Tim Fenbert, we love working with local government leaders all across the country and providing different workshops and podcasts and other tools to really make leadership come alive and be real, so that you can really best serve the people around you and ultimately, best serve your local government community. So whether you're a city or a county or a water department or taxing commission, whatever, we're really glad you're here today. We have a great topic today on communication. This is what we call the golden thread through all of leadership, is communication. And we all go to communication workshops, and boy, you're going to get a workshop today, trust me, this is going to be an awesome podcast on a very important topic. We have a wonderful guest with us today, and this topic is so important, and I'm so glad that our guest could join us. Brenda, Viola is with us. Say hello. Brenda, hello.
1:18
It's so nice to be here. I have been admiring your work, and I think the reason why we connected so well is we both genuinely have a heart for the public servants that are keeping our communities running, and as a former public servant, talking to these audiences is my heartbeat. So thank you for having me here today.
1:41
You are most welcome. It's It's so good to have this opportunity so many of the people that we are talking to today and that are listening, they deal with the public when they when they call the main switchboard at the city hall and the county facilities. And so we need to be able to obviously respond to citizen request and conversations we're in public meetings, you know, commission meetings, council meeting, route in the in the public, you know, fixing sidewalks and all sorts of things. And so the public facing element of local government, as you know, is significant. And so this ability to communicate well with brevity and be clear and be enthusiastic about what we're saying is so important. I'm glad we're having a chance to do this today. I want to share it with our audience, just a little bit of your background, and then we'll jump into some questions and a couple of books. I know that you are very intimate with you want to we want to talk about them today, but for everybody listening, Brenda is a former news anchor and reporter, also an award winning communicator and author. She chuckles that clients are most curious about her brief career as a QVC show host. Well, I gotta hear about that. QVC That sounds exciting. Everybody
2:55
wants to hear about that. If it gets them interested to have a conversation. I'm willing to have that conversation. Yeah, yeah.
3:04
100% in 2018 Brenda created municipal education seminars to address challenges faced by public servants. Her dedic her decade as a Public Information Officer for a Philadelphia suburb informed her well received keynotes and workshops the American Library Association, American Public Works Association, a lot of people know a PWA, American Society of Civil Engineers, national parks and recreation parks Association and the municipal clerks Institute have engaged Brenda to help them in their events and in some of their training. So it is just wonderful again. I know that you live in California today, in this just really rough part of the state called La Jolla. I feel so bad that you're having to, you know,
3:57
live sunshine and beauty and warmth and rainbows. Yeah, I exactly you know, grew up in the Philadelphia area, then spent 10 years in Florida, and now here I am in La Jolla, California. But my work takes me all around the country. In fact, before we started recording, I said, Gee, in the next few weeks, I'm going to be in Washington State, Mississippi, St Louis, Alaska, Sitka, Alaska, and Philadelphia. So I'm how plane will travel.
4:29
Wow. Tell us real quick about your current book. I know you have a new one coming out in communication, but your current, your first book, is called the public servant Survival Guide. Can you just give us the, you know, the what's what's this about? Give us your best 60 seconds here. So
4:44
I would meet with public officials and municipal workers around the country, and they would be going to conferences, and I could see that they were running on empty. And I believe public servants are the heartbeat of our community. These, and we can't afford them to burn out and check out. So I wrote a book based on the 10 signals that I was seeing, observing rubbing shoulders with everyone from Parks and Rec to libraries and public works and managers and all that. And I wrote out 10 different checkpoints to look for and how you can course correct. The subtitle of the public servant Survival Guide is 10 keys to reclaim joy in work and life. And I also teach this as a workshop around the country. It is a great Kickstart to helping people check in with themselves. And one of the things I really love about your work at leadergov is you ask people to check in with themselves. How are you doing? Because if you're not doing well, you're not going to be able to take care of anybody else. And so the public servant Survival Guide. You can get it on Amazon. You can get it through my website, brendaviola.com I can send you a signed copy or do a workshop with your people to help them find their joy again and go from burnout to breakthroughs.
6:09
I like that. I was going to suggest for local governments that are watching this, department heads, public works, it doesn't matter what department, buy this book. Buy a few copies of this book, give it to your team. Do a book club. Read a chapter a week. You can do it in 10 or 12 weeks. Have call Brenda up, have her, have her do a little kickoff thing with you. And it'd be a great, great investment, because with salary, with the pressure on salaries and what's going on in our economy, with inflation, overworked, no one wants to raise taxes, but services need to continue to grow. I mean, there's a terrible formula going on out there right now. So to be able to do things in our own lives that bring joy, boundaries or whatever, it's just a beautiful message. And so we're so glad that you, you wrote this book, and I really encourage everybody, go to Amazon, go to our website, get the book and do a book club, for sure. I
7:07
just want to add one thing too, because it's not like it's material that's coming from an ivory tower. I went to the local convenience store and had taxpayers saying to me, Hey, we pay your salary, and you feel sometimes like you have a target on your back, that your work is thankless. And so I speak, and I offer real life examples from being in public service to help people realize they're not alone, but they are so important. This is legacy work, the bridges that you build, the murals that you work with, on with the Historical Society, the records you keep, the minutes you take, these are all going to last long beyond your careers in public service. So finding a way to value yourself again in the work you do is so important, so thanks for letting me mention that. And of course, my new book is on the topic we're talking about today, how to be heard without screening is fresh, hot off the presses, and it takes my 30 plus years as a professional communicator giving people examples and exercises that they can use in their professional life and their personal life to help get what's up here out of their mouths or in the written word in a way that people want to listen. Yeah.
8:33
Yeah, wow. Okay, let's jump in. I want to hear and maybe just continue what you were just saying. Your inspiration for writing this book? I know you were in the news business for a while, and you're a professional communicator, but how did what was your inspiration for doing the book, How To Be heard without screaming and the training that goes with that?
8:59
So I started out doing a class called Mastering the media, how you know, when you're in local government, nobody wanted to talk to the PIO. They wanted to talk to the manager or the police chief or the fire chief, or, you know, the CFO. So equipping professionals how to handle reporter inquiries was how this started, but then it grew into so many people asking me, How do I deal with that difficult person who walks into my office, or how do I say no when my plate is full? How do I handle the emotion when I'm being attacked and respond in a gracious and professional way. And I realized there was a need for not a public speaking book or a media handbook. There was a need for a comprehensive guide to how to speak gracefully and in a way that's impactful. Gets your message across, and yet sets boundaries. And you know, it's been 30 plus years, and I've been keeping notes for all that time, and each chapter is a different day. So the subtitle is, find your voice and use it skillfully in 30 days. And each day has an exercise at the end, but you can practice, because communication like anything else, if you practice good principles and best practices, you can get better. And I think the biggest mistake people make is, oh, I'm a pretty good communicator. Well, good, but don't you want to be great? Because if you can improve your communication. You can improve your life, professionally and personally in every area. It's really a valuable skill that a lot of people take for granted.
10:53
Well, well, you just said it. I wanted to ask you, what is the biggest mistake that people make when they're communicating? Is it an assumption that they're getting their point across? What's the big faux pas here?
11:06
There are a few, and I unpack a few of them in the book, but I think the biggest one is the mistake of thinking that just because I said it means that it was heard. And there's a great difference between information and communication. Information is just getting it out, covering my talking points, checking off the boxes, but communication is getting through, and that's an art. And I would sit you know, when I was a public information officer, we had 14 commissioners, so our meetings would go on for a really long time. Sometimes we wouldn't get out of there until two in the morning, and as staff, we would often have to report out on our various jurisdictions and projects and give updates. And so many of my colleagues would stand up at the lectern and just not make eye contact and just sort of act like this was something they had to get through, and they would get through the list. But it never resonated. Oftentimes, it was just sort of like I'm at the dentist's office. I've got to check this off the list. But those who would love their material and deliver it with a certain level of either joy or pride or excitement or incorporate a story, all of a sudden, people's ears would perk up. So the big mistake is we think, Well, I said everything on the script. But did you deliver it in a way that people want to listen? Because that's the art of communication.
12:48
Wow. Yeah. Big, a big difference. I like that. I want to hear about your heard method, H, E, A, r, d, what is, what is the herd method is that, is that part of the formula for being a effective communicator? Yes,
13:04
and I do a deep dive when I do the workshop based on the herd method. But here is a broad brush overview that your audience can take with them, H, E, A, r, d, the H. Have a plan. Do not go into any important conversation, let alone an interview with a reporter, or even an important one on one meeting without a plan, and part of that plan is know in advance what you're trying to accomplish. If you don't have clarity about what your end goal is, how will you know if you met the goal? And that's when we tend to meander and go on and on and on and not hit the mark. So having a plan and reverse engineering from that plan, okay, this is what I'm trying to accomplish. How do I get there? Having a plan is the H, E, edit yourself, because we tend to fall in love with our words. So I always tell people, write down a sound bite, craft a seven to 15 second statement that is the essence of what you're trying to convey. Because once you have a plan and you have edited yourself, then you have clarity about what you're trying to say, the more words, the less impact. So edit it down to the main gem that you're trying to get out there, the A, H, E, A, anticipate pushback. Don't expect everybody to just applaud and say, Oh my gosh. That was just amazing. That was one of the biggest mistakes I made when I was a brand new public information officer. I was like, Oh, well, we've got all the facts here. Here's the information. They're just going to love it. And I would get so rattled when people would ask questions, or even if they were angry when I realized that. Anticipating pushback would help me better prepare then I wasn't rattled by it. In fact, when you have an important topic and you're bringing it to the public, get your team together. Have them act as reporters. Bring their different perspectives, the finance perspective, the public safety perspective, the Public Works perspective, have them throw every question that could come up in advance, so that you can prepare and not just anticipate pushback, but appreciate it. Because when you don't anticipate pushback, you're defensive against it. But if you have anticipated it and are prepared. You can appreciate it and say, I'm so glad you asked that question, because we agree this is an important point to cover, and here's how we plan to deal with it. Oh, you've just mitigated the anger people felt, heard and you were prepared. So have a plan. Edit yourself, anticipate and appreciate pushback and then repeat yourself. The R is repeat yourself. Don't just think because you said it once, everybody's going to get it. You know that when you tell your teenager to take the trash out, you got to say it more than once. So why should we in local government be surprised that we have to repeat ourselves, but you can do it in a lot of different ways, putting it out in a press release, putting it on your website, using your government access channel, saying it in a public meeting, putting flyers on trash cans if need be, if it's a topic that involves your trash collection. So use a lot of different ways, repeat your message and then the last 1d demonstrate that you listen. That's the golden rule. People will listen to you if you demonstrate that you have listened to them and simply by not thinking about the next thing you're going to say. But when a citizen comes in to your office and they're angry or inflamed about something, really letting them have their say and then responding with, okay, what I think I heard here was to make sure that there isn't a disconnect there. And if you've demonstrated that you've listened, take notes. People love seeing when, when I speak and I see people taking notes, I feel like, oh yes, they're actually listening. So have a plan. Edit yourself, anticipate and appreciate, push back, repeat yourself, demonstrate that you've listened. That's the broad brush overview that I get into much more in depth, but it's a heard method to help you be heard and not just have your words land out there without hitting the mark. Oh, I
17:46
love that. I like the simplicity of it, and I I like to maybe try to connect it to local government, to certain environments and local government, one of them would be where a leader has a team meeting. And how often do we go into team meetings and the boss doesn't have a plan for what we're going to talk about at the meeting, and the meeting gets off track and goes left and goes right, goes up and goes down, and we go down these rabbit holes and we spend too much time talking about something. So without a plan, leader in your team meetings, you tend to waste time and talk about things that just aren't top of mind, this idea of editing yourself, I love it. I'm writing a devotional right now. And I used to think if I used more words, I would be better understood. And I learned my brother keep telling me, kept telling me, hey, less words, less words, less words. I'm like, How do you do this? And somebody Graham Lincoln, or somebody I can't remember, maybe the Tom saw your author said, you know, I can do I can write a I can write an hour long speech in a couple hours, but to write a four minute speech takes two days. You know? It just takes more effort to edit down. So it's worth editing down. And on this pushback idea, I wanted to just make a comment there in meetings local government, meetings with your staff, with your teams, we think it's a good idea to say, what pushback do you have? What criticism Do you have? Where am I off? What have we forgotten? What have we overlooked and kind of invited? Because to your I love your point. When we invite that, when we anticipate it, when we're ready for it, it makes people think that we are sincere about valuing what they have to say. So I think that's a beautiful acronym. Heard,
19:40
you know, you mentioned the eternal meetings that meander and go nowhere. That is a great way to get your team to check out and to dread your next meeting. If you have a clear agenda that is so important and to also have a clear timeline, we're not going to meet for more than 30. Minutes. Here are our objectives. Let's go. And here's another flaw that oftentimes leaders make so there's a problem, and they will walk into a meeting and say, Okay, here's the problem, here's what I think we should do. That just shuts down all conversation and collaboration. The wisest people are the last to speak. And I talk about this in the book as well. Let everybody have their say and take notes on it, and then if you have something original to say beyond that, first recognize. You know, Joe had a great idea with her. And Lisa said this, let me just add then everybody feels heard. You've not shut down collaboration. Everybody wants to please their boss, but if the boss comes in and says, This is what I think we should do, it just shuts down conversations. So I want to caution any leaders out there, let everybody else talk first, and then you can synthesize it at the end, wrap it up. And maybe, just maybe, your team said something absolutely brilliant that was said because they had the opportunity to speak.
21:19
Yeah, it's a very practical idea I think about budgets and local government. You know, who wants to raise taxes, right? So, so budgets tend to get tight. And if you're having having a budget meeting with your team about, okay, the budget's going to remain the same this year as it was last year. And then to your point, instead of me as a leader, saying, here's what we're going to do about it, here's how we're going to approach it, to say, look, this is the reality. I struggle with this, like you probably do, let's talk about this. How can we function next year and provide great service? But at the same what are some ideas you all have, and you're right. Let them speak first. If I speak first, I'm kind of taking all the oxygen out of the room and not not allowing for that free flow. So really great. Lot of application here, very practical ideas for local government leaders. I want to ask you just, well, first of all, you this word eloquence, how to be an eloquent speaker, right? And some of us stumble around. And when I'm not prepared, I definitely stumble when I haven't thought things through. I definitely stumble, not very eloquent. And of course, not many are professional speakers, right? So what is the secret to eloquence? And tell us what that means in your world.
22:48
So I think eloquence is a certain grace that when you deliver something, people want to listen to it. And I've often heard from people who are afraid I'm just not a speaker. Well, that's a cop out, because everybody has to be at some point or another, and everybody can be better. And I say the ingredient for eloquence is sincerity plus preparation equals eloquence, and you said it yourself. There when I'm not prepared, I sort of find I'm fumbling and I'm not eloquent, even if you just take like before we started the podcast today, it just took a few minutes to refresh my memory about what I wanted to convey with to your audience, because every time I open my mouth. It's an opportunity to serve, and I want to serve with excellence and eloquence so sincerity and people can feel that people can, since a Maya Angelou said, and a few other great people said, people will forget what you said, but they will never forget the way you made them feel. So sincerity is sort of that feeling that you give people that I genuinely do care and preparation equals eloquence. And I was just listening to a podcast today, and there's a really good book out, came out a couple years ago called cues, C, U, E, S. It's by Vanessa Van Edmonds and Edwards, and she says that if you want charisma, which everybody needs to up their charisma to be listened to, competence plus warmth. So many times as public officials will walk in and we will be competent. We will be full of the facts. But don't forget the warmth, because it's in the warmth plus the competence that you have your charisma. So those are two of my takeaways when it comes to eloquence.
24:58
Oh, I love that. Yeah, this. This aligns so well with so many of the things that that we do at leadergov. We have a we have a DISC personality training, and a lot of our listeners will know D, i, s, c, dominant influence, steady and conscientious. Those are our four big styles on the right hand side of that, the I and the s, those are people oriented. People on the left, C, conscientious and D drivers dominant are task oriented. And you're right. A lot of times the folks that are that aim toward the people aspect will overlook the details and the competent side. And the people on the left, the competent sort of driven people, task driven people, will often overlook the people. How is this coming across? How am I presenting myself? Is it calm? Is it warm? Is it sincere? Those are all very people oriented words that we got to have both. You're right. I think it's a great, a really great reminder.
26:01
And you know, don't hesitate to get a coach to help with their golf swing. Why wouldn't you get a coach to help you with something as important as how you come across in a public meeting or on a zoom call, or, or, or, you know, I always say, give me an hour and I can improve how you represent yourself 100% just small things that you may not even realize. We are blind to ourselves. I've been blind to myself. I wrote in the book when I went blonde, because if you saw photos of me from 20 years ago. I was a brunette. When I went blonde, I didn't change the color of my eyebrows. Someone had to care enough to point that out, and I am forever grateful that they did so hiring a coach, and I do one on one coaching to just say, Look, can you give me a quick zoom, zoom, tune up. Spend the next hour with me, and let tell me what you see, tell me what you hear. Being vulnerable enough to open yourself up to that kind of coaching can enhance your professional life. It can even help you in a conversation with your partner, your mother in law, your teenager, the customer service agent that you've been hanging on the phone with, changing the way you talk, changing the way you're perceived, and by the way your body motions, your body language, your pauses, your tone of voice, what you actually say is only 7% of what happens in communication, so being aware of the whole package can make such a difference.
27:51
Yeah, yeah. As we wrap up here, tell me one of your favorite gems of wisdom. I know you've got to have 30 of them. I'm going to push it here. What's, what's like, one of your favorite, you know, things to think about in this area of being a good a good communicator.
28:12
So, you know, it's like you read my wet mail, because every chapter of my book starts with a different quote, because I love quotes. I mean, oh, they said it and they said it perfectly. But here's my favorite one of all time when it comes to communication, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. When you're having that one on one meeting with an employee and you know that they're taking care of an ailing parent, don't just go into your talking points or go into the to do list. Take a moment to say, hey, look, I know you're taking care of your mom. How's that going small things that show you care when you have a big tragic instance happening in your community. And yes, you need to talk about mitigation and your response plan, but first in that press conference, say, first of all, our hearts and prayers are with everybody that's been impacted by the flood, and make it genuine, because people can see and smell a phony from a mile away. I think that's why my work resonates with public servants. They know I've walked the walk. I've linked arms with them, with every branch of local government. I know the challenges they face. And I care people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
29:34
Love that love that I want to go back and repeat, which is one of your it is your r in herd. So I want to use your medicine here. So the herd is have a plan. Edit yourself, anticipate, push back, repeat yourself and demonstrate that you listened. And I just want to encourage everybody on the podcast today. We all. Have environments to put this herd principal into practice, whether it's a council meeting where we have to present for four minutes to the council or commission. It could be a town hall meeting where we're going to give a little five or 10 minute overview on the transportation project. It could be a staff meeting. It could be a tailgate meeting with the crew that's about to go out that morning. It could be a retreat, whatever. Everybody has opportunities, uses herd methodology, and so I really appreciate your, you know, helping us kind of think through that. Because these are such kind of basic ideas. We just forget. We have to be told, we have, we have to have the item, the idea, repeated to us. And
30:44
I so appreciate that you demonstrated, that you listened, you wrapped it up in a way that perfectly, gave your audience a takeaway. And I just want to say thank you. It's lovely to meet a kindred spirit who cares genuinely about public servants and helping to make their careers successful and their lives successful. So thank you for having me today, and I do want to invite your audience, visit brendaviola.com or follow me on social media. I'm always putting up inspirational content or communications content, connecting with your audience is a real privilege. And I thank you, Bill,
31:25
yes, thank you, Brenda, so much. I wanted to just get your spelling right so its last name is Viola, V, i, o, l, a, Brenda Viola and go to Amazon or wherever books are sold. Go to Brenda's website and order the public servants Survival Guide. Going to be a great could be a great book club book for you to read with your team. You know they say Leaders are readers, right? So here's an opportunity to and then Brenda's new book is called How to be heard without screaming, and talks going to have content similar to what we've discussed today, plus lots, lots more. And we would love to have you back sometime and have you share a bit more. But thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Brenda,
32:13
thank you. What a what a privilege and pleasure.
32:17
Have a great day, and if you have topics you'd like for us to cover on our podcast. Reach out and let us know, B, I, L, L, Bill at leadergov.com Have a great day. God bless. Talk to you soon.