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Well, good day to everybody. Hope you're having a great day as a local government leader. My name is Bill Stark, and I'm with LeaderGov. And we are excited to have you listen to our podcast today, we have a terrific topic. And it has to do with leadership, and how you lead from your personality, how your personality affects the way you lead, whether maybe successfully or maybe successfully not. So we're going to dig into that today. We have a wonderful guest and her name is Heidi letar. She's the customer success specialist at cloverleaf Heidi actually was an accountant for 15 years. So private sector focus at a big construction company in Cincinnati. And after she received her Master's, in executive leadership, she realized Oops, my passion is actually for people, not numbers. And so she, you know, really sort of shifted her focus from a numbers area to people which is the disc is all about people. So, it's interesting. I liked her quote, she said I was a people person that liked numbers. That's that's an interesting way to say it. I want to explore that more Heidi. And that obviously, you made a decision to have a career shift from accounting, to move over to cloverleaf, which is where you work today. You've been there a short amount of time, but cloverleaf definitely with all of its assessment, focus is all about people and all about relationships and improving relationships through understanding who you are as a person. So that's, it's really great to have you Heidi. Good morning to you.

Good morning. How's everyone doing?

Yeah, we hope well, yeah. And I know you're in sunny Florida today. So I assume it's nice and warm there.

Yes. It's I think we can calculated, it's like a 60 degree difference between back home and Cincinnati. And here in Florida, we are experiencing an unprecedent amount of snow back home, we typically get some snow, but last year, we didn't get any. And I think we're making up for it. They've gotten like 10 inches. So far, just in one night, three more on top. So we're expecting even more back home. So we are happy that, you know, obviously it's sad to miss such a fun, you know, thing. But yeah, happy to be in warmer temperatures. That's yeah, very fortunate. It's

awesome. We wanted to touch on just today, the topic today is really sort of an overview of disc. Some people that are listening to this know what the DISC assessment is, some people do not. And so we want to do a quick flyover kind of what is disc, what is a personality assessment? And what does the DI SC stand for? So that's kind of first and then we want to ask really the maybe the more important question, which is, how does my personality D sec, affect the way I lead? So that's kind of where we're going. Secondly, and then lastly, I want to talk to you about the way you all sort of rank a person score on the DISC assessment. So tell us Heidi, just again, a kind of a flyover of the DISC assessment. What are the letters mean? Is disc a real popular assessment worldwide? Can you can you share with us?

Yeah, so disc is very popular. So it typically most companies either use disc, or 16 types are the top two. And in my past accounting world, that's what we used. That was the first assessment I was ever engaged with was disc. And it's always held like a special place in my heart because it introduced me to how assessments work. It's the first thing I go to, to me because I am an accountant. I like those, you know, black and white figures, it's a little easier to understand there's only four options. It's just higher low in those categories and how it affects you. Obviously, you can dive way deeper into it if you want to. But if you want to stay high level, it's pretty simple to think about. And so yeah, so the D is dominance. And dominance basically means that you you hold the room, you're someone that likes to make decisions very quickly. Someone that isn't going to have much BS go on behind the scenes there, there's to the point, they're straightforward. And tip. And typically, it's called dominance for a reason you're dominating the conversation. Influence is some is people that really enjoy people. So as I'm sure you can assume with the intro that I was given, I am a very high I, I love working with people, it's people and influence with high influence, really love the relationship building really love to work with others, and build on that. And so that's influence and then the S is steadiness, I'm also very high in steadiness. I think it also me, because of my accounting background, I love processes, I love planning things. I'm a little strange, I am a seven s Enneagram. Seven. So for those of you who may know a little bit about Enneagram, seven is you know, someone that likes to be adventurous and things like that. So I never quite understood why I you know, studying, this gets kind of a bad rap, that they are a hate change, and they don't like change, and they're gonna be you know, it's not that they hate change. I can't speak for everyone. But for me personally, it's not that I hate change. It's just I need a minute to come up with my plan for my process. And then let's move forward. So they just need that minute to prepare. And conscientiousness is the see. And basically there are people that love numbers, they love data, they love facts. Obviously, in the accounting world, that was very key. And a lot of my colleagues were very high C's, I wasn't as high of a C, which should have been my first clue why I was you know, just not as passionate about accounting as others were. But yeah, so they want to they make decisions on data, they want to know where the facts are. So in thinking of the whole circle itself, you know, when you're high on D, you're very fast paced, quick decision making that type of stuff. If you're high on S, you're very slow paced, you need to make you need to have a process behind it before you make that decision. So they're kind of the ying and yang on the one side, and then the C in the eye or the opposite as well. So C's are very data driven, they really need to make decisions on the facts. And AI is all about relationship building. And okay, I need to make sure everyone's on the same page and that type of stuff before I make my decision. So that's in all kinds of plays in with each other. Obviously, you're you know, you can be a little bit of each and how that works. And we'll talk more about that when we talk about the levels but that's just kind of a breeze over what those four are. 

The thing that has always struck me about working with people, particularly the opposite, is that I'm an I also am If I go into the office of a see, and I want to ask to say the CFO is a see, and I want to ask for something, I go in, and I basically try to win them over with enthusiasm, and my excitement, and this is going to be great for the city, or my department. And they look at me with a blank face and say, you know, you need to come back in here with a business plan. Right, right. So if I could, as an odd just kind of pause before I go in the office and actually write down some statistics, right, and how this is going to be justified in an ROI, you know, that C is going to really, really face up and we're gonna have a better relationship, right? So tell me how these personality types can can be effective in your leadership. And then how sometimes if you do too much of it, if you're too strong, too overbearing, and all of these styles too heavy, it can really take away from your effectiveness as a leader.

Yeah. So in my past life and current life, I really, because I'm a strong as I love working with these, Heidi's because to me, they even me out. So we always joke. In here at cloverleaf we always joke that Darren, our CEO is a total Heidi like he likes to keep it moving. He likes to make decision. He comes up with these ideas. Let's have it done tomorrow. In the past of cloverleaf, we never had an answer until I came on board. I recently retook the desk, which was really kind of interesting. And I've moved a little bit further out of my ass. But like my, in there, this is a deeper dive, but my my inner, you know, actual Leighton van values is is the highest, but because of the environment I'm in, I'm kind of pulled out of that. So that's kind of interesting as well. But Darren and I work really well together. Because I'm telling him slow down, give me a second, let's let's have a plan. Let's figure this out first, before we jump. And he's like, key helps me move. So it really just depends on, you know, as far as how you use what you're good at. And I think it's very important to make sure you have that Yang to your Yang, if you're someone that's also I'm very high I and I need to sometimes focus on that data a little bit more. And so coming into a conversation, knowing what that person might need to be able to communicate better is key. Because like you said, you know, if you're going into the CFO, and you're just saying, Oh, this is gonna be great. He's gonna go okay, why, you know, where's the facts behind this? And, you know, in the same in, Dan's gonna throw me 1000 things. I'm like, Whoa, and so he knows that he has to slow down with me. So it just depends on how you do that.

Yeah, so what are some things that D could do if they did them compulsively? And they did them, let's say over the line a little bit, what are some things they could do? That would make them an ineffective leader,

sometimes you jump too fast. A lot of DS, they, they're, it's a and I hate to give them a bad rap. But a lot of DS jump quickly. And, you know, don't want to hear it, they're just like ready to go. And so they don't always take the time to really think through what they're about to do. And that sometimes makes a great leader because you don't have time, sometimes, you know, in those higher level positions, you need to just go and you need to make that decision. And you need to keep it moving. Because if not, especially in in our world, we're startup. So, you know, if we would have taken all the time to make sure every little piece was completely right, we wouldn't be where we are today. So it does take a certain type of personality for sure. So but yeah, you could definitely go a little too far be a little too demanding and a little too dominated of the conversation and, and oversee your teammates.

Yeah. I also see, Heidi, that oftentimes, these will just take up all the oxygen in the room. Yeah, exactly. There's, they're so strong, and they're so opinionated, which is, you know, awesome, in a way, right. But but when you talk all the time, and you dominate the discussion, as a leader, you know, you're not letting other voices be heard. Right, you so you're not getting that diversity. And so we've seen that be kind of an so tell me about the AI now and I'm I'm an AI, so I won't take this personally, but, you know, as a, as a leader, tell me how an AI can kind of get off the rails and really maybe mess up teamwork because they're just over over the top.

Yeah, something that I did is as a leader in my old world, you know, I was in charge of quite a few accountants and a big team and a constant feedback I always had was quit being friends with everyone. You can't be everyone's friend. And it was true. You know, giving feedback sometimes is a little harder for an eye because we want that relationship. We want to make sure everyone's on board. We want to make sure what Keeping that, you know, our relationship intact with that person. So it's really hard to give feedback for him and I and so in a leadership position, you kind of have, you really have to keep that in check. You really have to make sure that it's in my learnings as well, feedback is a gift. It's not, you know, we don't need to take it as a bad thing. Turning it into like, No, I'm helping this person. I'm not just yelling at them. That's where I had to kind of make that shift and make that work for me. But yes, hi, eyes. Typically, we are softies a lot of times, and it's hard to reel it in sometimes as well. So yeah, I think just keeping that in check is the hardest thing to do.

Yeah, you know, I've heard it someone, a local, a local government, or someone mentioned to me one time that when they go in and do a contract, negotiation with a vendor, I'm not sure who told me this, but I love the example, that the manager was an, the leader wasn't Ah, so he, he or she was always trying to be super friendly with the vendor, right? Relationship Building, right. And what they did strategically was they brought a see a conscientious type compliant type in with them to take care of the numbers party, be sure it was accurate. But in and of itself, if the eye was the only person in the room at that contract, they would get so enamored with everyone's personality and getting to know them and asking about their grandma. Right, you know, the details of the of the agreement probably would be a little sloppy. And so, you know, I leaders can get in trouble, when they don't pay attention to the details enough to cover that base. And so I really like what you're saying, Tell me about the ass. A lot of good leaders are asses. But how can they sometimes go off the rail and maybe be a detriment? You know, to success?

Yeah. So and you touched on like DS and I's, make decisions a little faster. And season SS makes decisions a little slower. And so S is getting their own way, a lot of times. I mean, I'm, I'm a highest as well. And so I love to have a plan, I love to have a process. So for me, and this is also something just personally and it's been said about us as as well, you need to give us some sort of direction before we get there. So in a leadership position, sometimes you're not given that. And so sometimes you just have to leap. And that's really hard for us. And so yeah, so the way I get around that is make sure I have enough DS and enough, you know, I, I chime in to my inner eye and just go, let's just go figure out the plan to plan the best you can. But don't get sucked into the plan so much that you're worried about, you know, four steps ahead. Like we're not there yet, like, just go ahead and get done what you need currently. And that's probably the hardest part of it is, is that a lot of leadership, people can't get past that that process. And so you just got to keep it moving.

Yeah, well, you know, I really like what you're saying, because as a leader, you have to be aware of momentum in your organization, you know, and let's say you're building a big city hall or some big project. And if you're all enmeshed in the details, and processes and procedures, and being comfortable with the next step, you may miss some of the momentum of the project when things are really going well. So you have to speed up and the fact that S is sometimes stay in that slower mode, and don't leap out, as you say, and take a little bit of a risk to get started. That can really hold up success for a city or a county or water department so that that's great. And tell me about the seas. We love our seas. They love quality. They love numbers and statistics. They're very logical people, right? So how can they sometimes kind of maybe hurt teamwork or success for the team? Yeah, so

you know, we talked about them being very data driven fat, well, then they're facts. And that's great. But sometimes you don't have all the facts yet. Again, getting back into cloverleaf, we're a startup. So we don't have all that data yet. We're still too new to get that information. So if we focus too much on that, it's going to hold us back. And also sometimes C's get so wrapped up into the data into the numbers that they forget that there's a human behind it. And so especially with teammates, you know, you have to say, okay, yeah, just because their numbers aren't where they should be what's causing that. It may not be because the math is wrong. It could be because they're just having a rough day and they need to have a conversation with you. So yeah, sometimes we just need to take a step back and and think about because they are so factual and data driven is really just remember that we are people and we we do have a human aspect of that.

Yeah, that's great. You know, we're kind of focusing on the negative here today, but I wanted to highlight where each personality style can set sometimes hurt a city or a county or departments success. And so thank you, thank you for that. The the, you know, for so a part of this podcast that we're doing is, we want to let people know that that we actually will provide them with a free DISC assessment. And so if you're listening to this podcast, you're like, oh my gosh, I would love to know, if I'm a D or an AI, you can find out and take the assessment and go to the leader, leader website, where we have a link to allow you to take a free disc. And so we're excited about that. So let's finish on this topic, just in the next couple of minutes. Heidi, are you only one style? Or can you be a blend of other styles? And if so, how do you know, maybe numerically kind of where you stand your is 5050 a good number to tell us about your rating system, guess a zero to 100. And how that works.

So most disc assessments and color release DISC assessment is based on 100 point scale. And basically, that's how far you are in that quadrant. So if you are super strong as C, D, whatever, you would be closer to 100. And if you don't use that part of, you know, your disc background, you'll be a lower number, you know, 123. So, for me personally, because I am so strong in the high I ns. When I took my assessment, right, when I started it clearly as a 96, an S and like an 82 or something in i and I've always been that high, I've tested myself a few times, and I've always been on that level, I've been a seven D and in my 20s around the sea. So for me, I stay the heck away from my from the D part of my brain, that's just not something I use. And so for me to, you know, kind of even that out, I like to put myself with D so they can pull that out of me. Or they can kind of be that D for me a little bit. And I can help you there s so that's how I use it. Any and you can be anything. I mean, there's people right in the center and using our 50 5050 it doesn't there's no, you can be a little bit of everything. You can be a high C and a high, which is rare, but it does happen. So yeah, I think it's just understanding sometimes that's why it's hard to diagnose some people because you're like, man, what are they you know, because they land in maybe a weird part of the circle. But a lot of times you can, especially as you get used to being able to diagnose people? Oh, yeah, that is for sure. You know, you're definitely an S or you're definitely a D, sometimes you can just pull those right out. It just depends on and it's mainly it's probably because they're pretty high in that letter.

Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's really good. I do want to just encourage everybody hear, you know, you can be an effective leader at any, anywhere on the disk, right? So you can be an effective leader as a D as an S, or C. So that's, that's number one. There's no really bad letters, right? They're all good. It's just that as a leader, if we don't pay attention to these other areas, as you say, encircle yourself with people, different from you to kind of help cover that area, or grow into it some right. And we just can't stay where we are exclusively, because it'll ultimately it'll ultimately hurt us as leaders. So right,

I think the biggest thing is just no matter what you are, you can definitely be a leader. You know, some people always ask, Oh, er, DS, you know, they're they're more D CEOs are and there might be, but that doesn't necessarily mean that that's that's the right way, it just means that typically, these are allowed and ready to go. And sometimes they just dominate the room and get that position. Just because you're a low, you know, you're a low D doesn't mean you can't get that the biggest thing that makes you a fantastic leader is being able to tap into everyone's personalities and swing from one way to the other. Because you have to be able to work with your team. That's what's that's what makes you a leader. It doesn't make you a leader if you can make decisions quickly or slowly or whatever. It's how you work within those teammates and within those different types that are different than you.

Yeah, that's Well, that's a great segue to kind of finish up our podcast here. And that is the fact that cloverleaf is a it's a platform. It's a website. And so it's a place that you go. And actually all of your team members can take the disc and it does serve as a way to coach in effect, it becomes a coaching platform where I'm able to I'm able to see other personality types on my team, what their scores are, where they are on the circle and Then even your platform even give some comparisons that allows me to compare my style with say, Susan. And it gives me tips on how to better relate to Susan, who is a see. And it reminds me Hey, Bill, when you go talk to Susan, you probably need to have your numbers lined up. So don't just barge in there and talk to her about a grandma, because she's going to want to know the facts. And so your tool, your platform, and cloverleaf allows you to have this comparison, which ultimately could be a coaching tool. I know it is a coaching tool. But it's just a really neat way to, as I say, compare contrast, personalities so that you have more effective relationships in local government. And we of course, use the cloverleaf platform, it's awesome. And we even have a kind of a separate way to serve local government where we can can show you this, this bigger platform as opposed to just your disc report. So anyway, if you want to say anything about about the platform and some of the features that that'd be great. Yeah, so

clearly visit coaching software that works with assessments like disc like Enneagram. I mentioned before 16 types via a lot of them and popular ones here in the US. And as well as we're bringing on to one instinctive drives as an Australian based assessment, a culture assessment and and dreamscapes is, strength based assessment we're bringing on board should be hopefully out in the next couple of months. So we take these assessments and we joke about it, but we're taking them you know, typically you get a binder with your results, and everyone reads it, you have this session, you're like, Wow, this is really great information about myself. But how often do you hear about it from your teammate. And then you take that binder, you put it on your desk, on your shelf on your desk, and then it collects dust, and no one ever does it ever again. So we're taking that binder off the desk and onto a daily platform that you get tips about yourself about a teammate. And then when you're going into that meeting, you can integrate it with your calendar. And then right away you're saying oh, here I am my high i s self, I'm gonna go talk to a high D C, like let's have, let's have a, how am I going to approach this conversation a little bit better. productivity increases, you're able to have those frank conversations a little bit easier, and be able to communicate better. So we do that just through dashboards, you get tips, daily tips, there are 10 different assessments available at this time. So definitely a great way to increase productivity and teamwork between your teams. And that's basically our goal is to allow people to do their best work. Imagine the best team you've ever been on. And let's try to recreate that.

Yeah, I really do like the way you all help. Bring it all together. And again, as you had said that the platform even allows you to look at the people that you're about to meet with if they're in the system, and kind of prepare yourself think through how am i How am I going to be most effective with the people in the room. And it's a very, very powerful tool. So but as I mentioned earlier, we are providing the DISC assessment for free to local government leaders who requested on our website. And if you want that bigger platform discussion, we can talk about that separately. But this has been really good. Heidi, thank you for kind of giving us a peek into these different styles and how they affect leaders and how they affect their success. We are very focused, as you know, on the success and development of leaders in local government, whether it's a supervisor of the water department or a finance director or manager or city manager, county manager, we really enjoy serving them and helping be a part of their leadership development. So really appreciate you being with us today. And I hope you enjoy your rest of your trip to Florida.

Yes, for sure. Definitely enjoy the sun while we still can until we go home to that snow. So we're happy to be here for the moment.

That's great. Take care. Thank you again, Heidi.

Thank you so much.