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In this episode of the LeaderGov Podcast, Bill Stark and Fire Chief Gabe Benmoussa dive into the essential topic of personal and professional growth for local government leaders and teams. This episode explores how cities and counties can create cultures of excellence, foster leadership development, and invest in their people.

Special guest Chief Gabe shares practical insights on building a growth-oriented organization, preparing for succession, and making professional development a daily priority. 

Transcript

0:00
Bill, welcome to the LeaderGov podcast, America's premier source for local government leadership and teamwork training. And now your host, Bill Stark, we would like to welcome you to our workshop today, our June 2025 workshop. My name is Bill Stark. I'm with LeaderGov in Atlanta, Georgia and Lindsay, you can say hello too.

0:23
Hi everyone. I'm Lindsay. I work with LeaderGov. Also, I'm in California, so not far from Long Beach up in Santa Monica. We are known for a lot of tourists, and we love them so.

0:36
And there are no mudslides today and no fires today, right? Not that I'm aware of.

0:44
All right. Well, good. Well, it's great to have everyone with us. We got a great topic today, personal and professional growth. How can we invest in each other and how can we invest in ourselves? And so thanks for chatting in the chat function to let us know where you're from, we actually record this workshop and repurpose it as a podcast. So you may be listening to this right now, driving down the road six months from now, as a podcast, and so you're we're glad that you're with us as well listening to a podcast sometime in the future, but right now, we're live, and it's great to have everybody participating from all over the country. Just a couple of introductory things as we get started into this topic.

1:34
LeaderGov serves only local government. So we've been working with cities and counties since roughly 2012

1:42
and we love working with local government leaders and teams all around the country. I say we would do we could do it. We would do it for free if we could. But our finance department doesn't like it when I say that,

2:01
because we are a private business, so but we do love working with cities and counties from Arizona to,

2:10
you know, Clark County, which is Las Vegas, California, Ohio, and kind of everything in between. We do four things here at LeaderGov, and if you ever want to engage with us in these four activities, just let us know we're here to serve you. We do off site retreats. Did two this week. We do strategic planning, succession planning and professional development. The professional development, the box on the right is what we're doing right now. This is our free monthly workshop, and we actually have a teamwork product as well. So under professional development, we have leadership and teamwork, two different aspects of professional development. Today we're going to be talking about this topic of professional growth. You're going to hear from Chief Gabe in just a minute, fire chief, and he's going to really talk about this idea of becoming a city or county or agency that focuses on excellence, that creates a culture of growth, utilizing professional growth to prepare for succession, for people coming up in the organization, oftentimes, that opens up careers for people and new pathways for people as they grow and learn.

3:21
And he's also going to talk about this whole idea of really making professional development a part of every thing within your culture kind of intertwined within your day to day operations. So it's a great talk, and looking forward to hearing from Gabe today. Lindsay,

3:41
yeah, so today's workshop is really part of our teamwork summit program that we developed because, as we were doing leadership training with a lot of different cities and counties, they were desiring a way to take this back to their team, a lot of these principles and teachings, and so we've developed what's called teamwork Summit, which is a monthly training that leaders can do with their teams at their already existing meetings. So every month we have a different topic. This month is personal professional development, but then we also add this free workshop for all of you.

4:20
Yeah, Lindsay, thank you for sharing that teamwork Summit is a very simple, very effective way of bringing your team together. And kind of in a nutshell, what we do is we send you, as part of this program, a monthly video on a teamwork topic like trust or conflict or delegation or team goals or professional development, and you play the video during your team meeting, you hit the play button online during your team and your team listens to the video. And then we give you questions to ask in a workbook to get your team talking and sharing openly and honestly with each other about whatever topic it is. So if you're interested in making your team better.

5:00
Uh, let us know. We would love to give you some more details about teamwork Summit.

5:06
All right. Well, that was our only commercial, if you will. And so if you felt the tug of that awesome service, let us know at the end, and we'll definitely give you a call back. But today we're going to talk about

5:20
fostering your own growth, professional growth, personal growth, as well as the growth of the people on your team. If you're a leader on this call today, part of your job is helping other people grow. In fact, I would say it might be one of your biggest jobs. You're a nurse, you're a counselor, you're a coach, you're a mentor, you're an educator. You know your job as a leader is to inspire and equip your team so they can become their best and so that they can achieve all the great strategic goals of your agency. That's kind of your role. So this is not just about professional growth for you personally, but it's about how you can invest in other people's growth as well. So Lindsay, we did a little survey before when people registered, what is it? What'd they tell us here?

6:20
I was muted.

6:22
Sorry about that. Um, yeah, this is always really interesting, because all of you that are on the call gave us this info. Um, so this is great to find out that 25% of the people on the call or that registered for the call, are daily, doing, you know, work, investing in their their growth and development, which is pretty amazing. The green is occasionally, and that, what is that bill? Is that, like, that's like, yeah, occasionally or quarterly, quarterly or semi annually, right? Quarterly or semi annually,

6:57
yeah. And then we've got rarely as 15% and then a couple there in the middle between monthly and weekly. So, yeah, it's really interesting. Yeah, it's a nice it's actually a pretty wide mix, right? We've got some folks at the bottom, the green and the gold that are maybe not so frequently invested in development, but the ones at the top, daily, weekly, monthly, yeah, that's, that's really awesome. We're glad to see that you are committed to growth in your own, you know, personal growth.

7:32
Yeah. And this is really interesting, too, Bill, because I think this is maybe shifted over time, because I feel like books and podcasts used to be maybe a little bit more of a way that people would grow professionally. But I think it's interesting that the second biggest one is coaching and mentoring.

7:50
So that's really interesting. And then obviously the number one way people grow professionally is workshops and conferences and and then some online courses and training as well. Yeah, the last one there says journaling, reflection through journaling and quiet time, not a lot of quiet reflection. Lindsay, no, not sure, not sure what that's a lot of loud, boisterous people on the Zoom today. So thank you all for registering and answering these two questions. This kind of gives us a feel for where everybody's coming into the workshop today. So since chief bin Mousa is not with us today, I'm going to play a recording that we did this morning. It's about 24 minutes long, but I asked him a series of questions about his own professional development, as well as his role in developing the skills and know how of his team. So we'll go ahead and play this for you all, and

8:56
you'll give me the thumbs up and let me know that you're you can hear the video. That would be awesome. We're going to play this and then when we get finished with this video from him, we're going to put you all in groups, groups of five, and let you talk about what you're doing to invest in your team's personal and professional growth. So here we go. We're excited today to have with us Fire Chief Gabe Benmoussa. He's the fire chief from Milton, Georgia chief. How are you doing today? Good, thank you. Good to see y'all. Yeah. Everybody invited me. Well, thank you for being here. I want to share just a brief kind of a history of you and the fire business, and tell everybody listening who you are. I know you've been in the emergency management space for a long time, three decades, in fact, in the area of public safety, disaster preparedness, interagency coordination, and as a fire chief and emergency service.

10:00
Strategist, I know that you've led lots of complex operations, advanced, innovative response systems, and champion collaborative programs across both municipalities, but also regionals and even at the international level. Right now, you're serving, of course, as the fire chief of Milton, Georgia, before that, Deputy Chief at Salem, Oregon and and you grew up and kind of cut your teeth in the Arizona area. So where were you, Arizona? Growing up in your early career, I was in, I was so I lived in Scottsdale, Arizona, but I worked in Goodyear, Arizona, which is the suburbs of Phoenix, the west side. Yeah. Awesome. Well, hey, we're excited about this topic today, which is personal and professional growth. And want to ask you just a few questions. I know this is something that's near and dear to your heart, and kind of get your personal perspective on it, like, what are you doing? But also ask, you know, how do you as a leader, foster this type of mentality. You know, there with your team. So just first question, Chief, why do you think it's important for leaders, especially those in local government, to to always have, you know, personal and professional goals defined in their life. Why is that important to you? Why do you think it's important to leaders? Well, so I'm in the context of

11:26
context of fire service. If you become a fire chief, you sort of reach the pinnacle, right? But

11:33
personally, I believe that

11:36
when you reach that the pinnacle of your career,

11:40
you're there so and if that's it, you could potentially begin a personal and organizational decline, many organizations. And the reason why that if you don't stay engaged on your own professional development, personal development, eventually, you know you're going to start that decline? I think so. I think it's important to have goals, but continue to engage and continue to develop professionally, whether it's attending National Fire Academy courses, whether even industry conferences, like we have the International Fire Chiefs Conference, which is a great event. They have a lot of leadership development. They have many courses you can take, but it's also an opportunity to talk with other peers and what they're doing. So I think that best equips you

12:36
to kind of stay current, right? Stay current. But aside from that, there's also the other side, that is, you know, that is pursuing a master's degree. There's pursuing certificates, specialized training, working with organizations like leader gov that give very specific programs that can be tailored, for example, to the organization or to the command staff, for example. So So I think the opportunities are limitless, and because what we know is what we know, right, but if we don't open up our horizons and engage, then we're going to become sort of stuck, right? And we're going to be doing the same things over and over and knowing how city government works, and I know, for example, for my city government and my leadership, they're constantly they're very in tune leaders. In a sense, our council is very much engaged. They're highly intelligent people. They understand,

13:38
sort of like they understand the data, they understand innovation, so they expect that out of us. So how do you get there? You have to equip yourself with more than just what you've learned in your career, right? So you kind of got to go in different directions and seek that knowledge. Yeah, yeah. I like this whole idea of, if you're not proactively moving forward, you're actually kind of going backwards, you know? Yes, you're kind of because the stream keeps coming at us, and we have to constantly be setting goals for ourselves. Otherwise we do kind of kind of go backwards. Yeah, I wanted to ask you, why do you think as leaders and even as frontline employees. You know, why do we sometimes get stuck in that mode of task driven, get the job done mode? And why do we kind of so easily give up on and sometimes maybe walk away from those personal or professional goals? We it seems like a struggle. We're always moving from task to doing these more strategic, more important things. Why do you think we sometimes get stuck in work mode? I guess. What are your thoughts on that? Well, so part of that, when we talk about self care and work life balance, well, in the sense pursuing, you know, if you're stuck just in the tasks, you're not.

15:00
So you're not doing self care, right? So by seeking other opportunities for professional development or personal development, that is, in the sense, part of self care, right, it pulls you away a little bit from those tasks for a period of time. But I think when you come back to the task, you might have learned something that will will help help you be successful as a leader, as a strategist, to lead the organization.

15:26
I think high performing organizations will need a high performing team, right? And where does that come from? Right? It for it comes from that development, that professional development, like for us in the organization, we encourage professional development. Matter of fact, we we, we encourage people to go. The city also provides, provides benefits for for and pay as well, for when you get a degree, for example, college degree, they provide tuition, tuition reimbursement, so that there's no excuse, right? There's no excuse. And then there's also, you know,

16:00
because the city wants us to be to develop, wants us to be good leaders, wants us to be equipped with good, innovative strategies, and how we best run the city, and how to be good stewards, and all of that. Yes, it comes from experience to a certain extent, but I think that experience is limited, right to what you've been exposed to. So that's why it's important to kind of open up the horizon and open up the opportunities and seek from others and learn otherwise. I think you're going to be doing the same thing over and over and over

16:36
so. And I think having a vision is very important. And one of my favorite, favorite sayings is a Japanese proverb that says, vision without action is a, is a, is an, is a dream in a sense, right? And actions without a vision is a nightmare. And that's true. So I think when you have that vision of what you want to be for yourself or even for the organization, you got to couple that with actions. And where does that come from? Is for So, for so for you, for me personally, is having, having a plan, right?

17:06
To sort of like, what do I want to accomplish? What are some of the goals? What are some of my professional development goals? And therefore, the organization that comes in the form of, for example, a strategic plan, right? A Strategic Plan is a sort of a vision, but it's got actions with it. So I think that's that's very important to have a vision for yourself, not just for the organization, right? But on the other hand,

17:31
I know we can say, well, we're, I'm too busy to go to a conference. I'm too busy to, you know, to pursue something. Again, it goes back to making time, because it's only going to make you better, and plus, there is a satisfaction of personal satisfaction from achieving something, right? That's, that's, I think, important and that. And if you're that way, I think you then now you're creating a culture that's that sees that, and it trickles, trickles down, right? If you're, if, if my deputies see that and they're seeking opportunities, then it trickles on down, down the line, and if we have that culture, we encourage that professional development, and we're providing also opportunities internally. We're bringing classes here, we're bringing outside instructors, we're sending people to conferences. That's how you create that that culture, right? Yeah, that's how you create that high performing organization, yeah, I mean, it's critical, and it's critical that professional development, just to add excuse me, is is critical to that succession planning, right? That you have to have for us, is very critical to have that successful plan, because I'm not going to be here forever. So if you can build that capacity, I can take off a vacation for two weeks and not have to worry about, you know, is it, is it being run and managed like I see it and like I want it, in the sense, are we meeting, what are the goals of our mission? And then the answer is yes, because, because of that, we have created that succession, that succession planning, and it's in it's very effective. And I think fire police, they do very well in that, in that sense, because we're paramilitary in the sense, so, so that that helps, yeah, well, the so there are some definite long term benefits and value to this kind of investment. I'm curious, just from a personal perspective, like, as you look back over the last few years, maybe the last few months, tell us one or two things that you've set as a goal, or something that you've where you've invested in your own leadership, management skills, or even personal, you know, just this is about personal development, professional development. So we'd love just to hear you know, something that you've kind of embarked on over the last several years that's been meaningful to you and your career and and maybe helped your team as well. Right? Yes, I, you know, for the longest I've been wanting to become a facilitator for the International Public Safety ethics and leadership institute.

20:00
Week, and I finally was able to bring them here, and I actually got some of my staff also to participate in one one week facilitator course certification, and it was a great experience. So we we've learned so much from that, and that's always been a goal of mine, to become a facilitator, but I pulled in some of my team from all ranks to become facilitators, and now we're including that program in our in our development, in sense. So so one of that's one of the goals, one of my personal goals also is I'd like to achieve a

20:39
public manager leadership credential from from Harvard. That's one of the things I like to, I'd like to pursue.

20:47
But, you know, to add to that, the great Lombardi is his model for leaders, said, only by knowing yourself, you can become an effective leader. And it's true, you know. And we can make we can make mistakes. And making making mistakes is not fatal, but failure to change is is fatal, I think. And I've made mistakes throughout my career, even in the last four years, I've made mistakes, you know,

21:17
so and as long as you recognize that and you work on it,

21:22
I think we can overcome anything. None of us are perfect. I still have a lot to learn. You know, I've modeled the behavior from certain leaders. I've learned from good leaders bad leaders. Develop my own style in the sense and and sometimes you just have to kind of sit back and understand that when it comes to a team, not everyone works at the same speed, for example, that I work at, and you gotta allow time, and you gotta give them, you know, give them the opportunity, and not try to intervene and take it away, because just didn't finish something within a certain amount of time. So I think our role as leaders, just to empower and support but not to interfere. I think there's time to interfere so, but if we're constantly interfering, I think we're undermining their their capabilities and their their their skill set and and I've made that mistake, you know, just because I wanted something to be done a certain way, or, you know, not allowing for that opportunity. So I recognize that, and I have to work on that, you know, because, and it's funny, because my boss tells me, not everyone works at your speed, you know, and you got to slow down. It's funny, I have a sign above my door. It says, slow down with a smiley face, you know. So

22:35
I remember that. I just see it every time. So I had to really adjust. I learned a lot in the last four years. So being a being a deputy chief, versus a fire chief, I think is a great big difference, right? So you're, as a deputy chief,

22:48
you're in charge of a unit, in a sense, but you have a far reaching the organization, obviously. But as a fire chief, you understand the responsibilities, right? That it's now you're sort of like responsible for everything. And then you realize, also, I realize is, yep, it's the fire department, but you're also part of a bigger organization, a bigger professional, which is city government too. So you have to learn how to, how to fit in right with other peers and other leaders within within the within the city. So I'm fortunate to work in the city that's very supportive for us, very appreciative of the first responders. The fire department is well respected, but that's thanks to the work that our firefighters do. They're leaders out there. They're leaders every time they go out and take care of people and do what they have to do, their leaders. And you know, I can tell you, what's amazing is, in the last four reasons I've been here, I've never gotten a single complaint from a citizen about the level of service, for example, that was provided, which is incredible. So that speaks volumes to the to the people that we have. Yeah, so and again, in the community, that makes a difference, yeah, so, so the all of those, all those factors, I think, help you, you know, because I don't have to stress about certain things. So I don't have to, because those things are, in a sense, non existent, you know. So, so it helps. It kind of frees up your time to focus on the things that that matter. So I don't have some of those problems that maybe other leaders have, right? So I got the support I have, you know, great community. I have a great team. So, yeah, the benefits are wide ranging, for sure, and it sounds like you're reaping some of those now, you know, I think about the the leaders across the country that are listening to this

24:39
today, and you know, they want to create this culture that you're talking about, of personal and professional growth. You mentioned the word culture earlier. I just wonder, as we kind of wrap up here in a few minutes, I wonder if you could share what are some ways that a leader can foster.

25:00
For a an environment where we're learning and development is kind of at the forefront,

25:07
because it needs to be second nature, right? It needs to be part of our DNA. And the leader has a responsibility there to lead that effort and to foster that and promote it. And I just wonder, how, how have you done that? Is it? Is it just casual conversations? Is it formal? You know, setting schedules and plans for development, what? How have you done that in your in your career? For those you serve, you have to weave it in, within your daily sort of operations, right? So, by having an in house good training and professional development. We have a we have a professional development, professional standards division within departmental that has oversight over training, professional development, so that professional development starts the minute that firefighter walks in the door. We're once they get through certain things now we get them ready for the next thing, and so on so forth. But weaving some of those requirements, for example, that our fire officers, our captains, have to have a minimum of an associate degree, for example, and some of the arguments like, Well, why do I need a degree for Well, you gotta be able to write memos. You gotta be able to communicate, you know so, but if anything else, I think it's it's also a personal achievement. So you have to leave those in within the operations. You have to weave those within your strategic plan as well, so that you can create that this is a culture of professional development and but you also have to set the example yourself. I have to go to conferences. I have to go to some of those, some of those trainings outside of you have to highlight also the accomplishments of other people. So you have to, you have to showcase those things, because that might inspire other people. So I think you can motivate, right? But it also, there's a personal responsibility. You have to self motivated, because everything is there. Like I said, there's tuition reimbursement, there's opportunities to grow confident, there's all of that. So you can have all of those things, but if an individual is not self motivated,

27:16
I think it's a little bit difficult, right? You can't force someone to self motivate, you're not going to have the same results. So finding those things that people enjoy, you know, for example, some of the firefighters that love to go to the Metro fire conference hands on, you know, so, so you have to find like things that people will enjoy to professional development. And then at my level, there's different things, or my deputy chiefs. On my chiefs level, there's different levels of sort of like the fun things you go to, like a firefighter going to the International Fire Chiefs might not find that as interesting as going to the fire department instructors conference, for example, because there's a lot of hands on stuff. So it's a balance, right? It's a balance as you get to a certain level, now it becomes more the leadership, the managerial skills, strategies, how you can manage, how you can manage your budget, those kind of things. So all of those things you know, the interactions, the communication. So, so you have to weave it in, within, within, within the culture. To create that culture of asking and re asking questions to it's very fundamental to allow for that, you know, so you can achieve that clarity of mission in the sense, right? So, so I think it's you have to weave it in, and it starts from the minute people walk in the door until they transition out, right? So, yeah, that I really like this word of integrating and weaving in development as part of just the day to day life. And also you mentioned this idea of of tailoring the development to the person and their interests where they are. I think those are, that is some really sage advice, as we sort of wrap up here. Last question for you, just what advice would you have? You know, we've got Public Works folks listening. We've got city managers. We got public safety people listening to this. What advice would you give them, or maybe encouragement around next steps? You know? What would you what would you say to them, as, as we kind of wrap up here, as as either encouragement in this area of development or just sort of final advice for the folks listening

29:25
leaders, create leaders, you know. So I think that's that's important to remember.

29:33
And I think a winning organization, a high performing organization, has to have an environment of personal and professional development that's very important, in which individuals take responsibility and share ownership of the mission and of the sort of the responsibilities we have. Like I said before, organizational decline is inevitable unless leaders sort of prepare for change, right, even when standing at the pin.

30:00
People's success, that's that's very important. So we have to recognize that, just because we achieve this, like for accidental for us, we achieved the international accreditation for from the from the Center for Public safety accidents. We're only one of 310 organization worldwide that are accredited. It took an incredible amount of work of the entire organization. But just how do we maintain that now that, because we have, every five years, we have to be reaccredited, but during those five years, we have to keep up those standards. We have to make sure that we align our goals, align with, with the with our community needs. So so we are in the sense I can say, Where are the pinnacle when it comes to that, but we what? What else can we do? How innovative can we do and be in delivering, delivering services, right? And also be good stewards, because there's so many tax dollars to go around and there's competing right priorities, so so we have to really get creative about how we deliver, deliver service. So for the leaders, you have to be adaptive, for sure, right? You have to be able to adapt as a leader. You have to develop the strategies to adapt around, you know, the community's needs, the the organization's needs, the people's needs, all of those things. So if I think, if we're not adaptive, then we're, we're transformative in a sense,

31:19
and embracing change, right? We have an old saying in the fire service, I think, although, if there's some fire people to say that fire service is

31:27
so many 100 years of tradition is unimpeded by progress, right? And there's another funny saying. They say that firefighters hate two things the way things are, and change, you know, so, so we have to, we have to really embrace change, but at the same time, we have to make sure we make a good case for the change, right? You have to engage with those people that may be change risks, and you bring them into the fold, and whether it affects your operations, your professional development, all of that. But I think by having good professional development and personal growth, that will open the doors for so many other things, people will step up at a level, I've seen some people flourish here just by giving the opportunity incredible. The the work that they put out is just unimaginable. It's just because we opened the door for that, for that opportunity and for that professional development, that they discovered their own talents, that they understood that they were far more capable than to in a whole nother level. And then I'm talking like into the managerial level, or the administration level versus the operational level. They didn't know they had talents that they didn't know. And how did they discover those things? By that professional development, personal growth, they challenged them to kind of dig deep. And I think so that's, don't be afraid of that. And what I tell city managers or chiefs or

32:47
put some money aside for professional development, that's very important. I think we can all find dollars to provide because everything costs money, right? I think is equally as critical as making sure having money for turnout gear and for other equipment. I think it's equally as important to have to have dollars or money set aside for professional development and weave it in, whether it's internal or external. I think a combination of both is a great thing, and it will pay dividends down the road. Yeah, wow. What a great what a great way to say it. Thank you. I just want to thank you for your commitment to excellence, you know, for above and beyond and taking that next step, it is so easy to get caught up in status quo and the way things are. And I appreciate the fact that you're focused on excellence and and sort of a byproduct of that, of course, is that you're investing in the future of the people around you, and you're growing them to be effective leaders and contributors to the team. And so thank you for doing that. Thank you for your role at the city of Milton here in Georgia, and it's it's really been great to chat with you and kind of hear your your heart for serving others through this lens of development and growth. So thank you. Thank you for being with us, Chief. Thank you. My last words are, serve with a purpose. Pass the ball. Awesome. Thanks. Have a great day. Wonderful. Thank you. Thanks.

34:17
Thank you for listening to the LeaderGov podcast. Don't forget to like and subscribe and for more information on leader gov's workshops and programs for state and local governments, visit www.leadergov.com